Wednesday, July 20 2005
From LDTP
- BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 20 16:16:56 2005
Jul 20 16:16:56 --> You are now talking on #ldtp
Jul 20 16:16:56 --- Topic for #ldtp is LDTP Community Meeting at 4:30 pm GMT+530...today!!!!
Jul 20 16:16:56 --- Topic for #ldtp set by krish_ at Wed Jul 20 14:44:42
Jul 20 16:25:24 <kaveri> nags: i think we can get started with the discussion
Jul 20 16:25:35 <nags> kaveri: oh ya
Jul 20 16:25:46 <nags> Hi all
Jul 20 16:25:51 <Raghu> Hi
Jul 20 16:25:54 <manu> Hi
Jul 20 16:25:56 <biswa> hi
Jul 20 16:25:58 <Bala> Hi
Jul 20 16:25:59 <nags> This is our first LDTP community meeting !!!
Jul 20 16:26:05 <mnagashree> hi all
Jul 20 16:26:09 <nags> I welcome you all :)
Jul 20 16:26:22 <nags> Seeing some new nicks in this channel, maybe we can start by introducing ourself :)
Jul 20 16:26:24 <tuxbox> hi
Jul 20 16:26:25 <prem> hi all
Jul 20 16:26:46 <nags> I'm Nagappan working in Novell, Bangalore. Started LDTP from scratch with the ideas from Thanika|Bea and krish_
Jul 20 16:27:15 --> manukt (~3d02461b@cgiirc-gateway.ictoadd.com) has joined #ldtp
Jul 20 16:27:20 <kaveri> Ok.. I am Kaveri, i work with Wipro, Bangalore
Jul 20 16:27:33 <shilpa> I'm Shilpa working at Novell, Bangalore
Jul 20 16:27:33 <shilpa> hi
Jul 20 16:27:40 <mnagashree> I am Nagashree, I work with Novell, Bangalore
Jul 20 16:27:42 <Raghu> Myself Raghu, working for Wipro, Bangalore
Jul 20 16:27:52 <prem> I with Novell, Bangalore
Jul 20 16:28:00 <shaheed> Hi all, this is Shaheed working in Novell, Bangalore.
Jul 20 16:28:07 <Girish> I am Girish , working with Wipro, Bangalore
Jul 20 16:28:17 <nagarwal> i am also at novell
Jul 20 16:28:18 <Hema> Hema, wipro.
Jul 20 16:28:22 <biswa> this is biswa working with wipro
Jul 20 16:28:31 <nags> tuxbox: works in SuSE, Germany
Jul 20 16:28:39 --- varadhan|out is now known as varadhan
Jul 20 16:28:40 <tuxbox> Hi all, I am Frank(alias tuxbox) working for SuSE/Novell in Germany/Nuremberg
Jul 20 16:28:40 shaheed shane Jul 20 16:28:45 <krish_> krish_:- Krishnan, at Novell, Bangalore.
Jul 20 16:28:49 <nags> shane: ?
Jul 20 16:28:52 <nags> Bob: ?
Jul 20 16:28:54 <nags> Bala: ?
Jul 20 16:28:58 <jess> Jessica, Novell, Bangalore
Jul 20 16:29:04 <biswa> tuxbox:hi
Jul 20 16:29:29 <tuxbox> hi ;)
Jul 20 16:29:34 <varadhan> Hi everyone!!
Jul 20 16:29:36 <Bala> I am Balamurali V, working for Wipro Technologies, Bangalore
Jul 20 16:29:39 <nags> Okay anybody else ?
Jul 20 16:29:44 <manukt> Hi, just completed B.E, NOSIP student
Jul 20 16:29:58 <nags> Let us start our meeting...
Jul 20 16:30:01 --- mnagashree gives channel operator status to manukt
Jul 20 16:30:01 <Hema> Bob, Shane are from Sun, Ireland.
Jul 20 16:30:12 <nags> Hema: okay
Jul 20 16:30:24 <nags> As this is our first community meeting, we can discuss our new plans the current state of LDTP
Jul 20 16:30:33 <nags> Just to re-iterate our _goal_
Jul 20 16:30:36 <varadhan> I am Varadhan @ novell in blr.
Jul 20 16:30:56 <nags> We want LDTP to be "The" framework for testing Linux Desktops. Any distro should be able to download the framework, run a series of tests and certify it.
Jul 20 16:31:12 <nags> While I understand that it is not an easy target, I am sure that we all can make it happen together.
Jul 20 16:31:22 <nags> "LDTP Releases"
Jul 20 16:31:40 <nags> 0.1.7 released !!! - http://gnomebangalore.org/ldtp/index.php/Newsletters
Jul 20 16:31:51 <nags> "Community news"
Jul 20 16:32:05 <nags> - GNOME has plans to integrate LDTP with their build system (with the help of Luis Villa)
Jul 20 16:32:23 <nags> - Mozilla QA community is evaluating LDTP scripts for Mozilla projects.
Jul 20 16:32:40 <nags> - Requested Luis Villa to add LDTP in bugzilla.gnome.org
Jul 20 16:32:57 <nags> - Periodically interacting with KDE accessibility community about the current state. Once their accessibility framework is ready, LDTP can be used to automate KDE applications also
Jul 20 16:33:13 <nags> "LDTP roadmap"
Jul 20 16:33:32 <nags> - "Record and play back" is important for speeding up the automation. We need volunteers with good 'C' Programming skills to work on this right away.
Jul 20 16:33:56 <-- manu has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
Jul 20 16:34:19 <nags> - GNOME automation (Evolution / Gedit / nautilus / gaim / file-roller / eog / gnome-search-tool / gnome-dictionary / bug-buddy).
Jul 20 16:34:33 <nags> - KDE automation (based on KDE accessibility framework) - tuxbox would work on this
Jul 20 16:34:57 <nags> - There is going to be a dot release every 15 days
Jul 20 16:35:06 <nags> Any suggestions are welcome :)
Jul 20 16:35:43 <-- Girish (~girishu@203.91.193.15) has left #ldtp
Jul 20 16:36:03 <kaveri> As per the initial evaluation that we have done on LDTP i think it has to go a long way before we actually start writing complex scripts
Jul 20 16:36:07 <shane> what about test case verification?
Jul 20 16:36:11 --> Girish (~girishu@203.91.193.15) has joined #ldtp
Jul 20 16:36:42 <nags> kaveri: okay
Jul 20 16:36:45 shaheed shane Jul 20 16:36:47 --> ldtp (~ca905693@cgiirc-gateway.ictoadd.com) has joined #ldtp
Jul 20 16:36:57 <nags> shane: As of now we have only very few verification functions
Jul 20 16:36:58 <kaveri> shane: as of now we have to think of all the possibilities for an action and write commands for the same. or the results of a test case should be stored somewhere for verification later,
Jul 20 16:37:29 <kaveri> we should be using screenshot mechanism and screenshot compare mechanisms to get further verification. am i right nags?
Jul 20 16:37:57 <nags> kaveri: screen shot verification is one
Jul 20 16:38:14 <nags> kaveri: apart from that, we can implement functions to verify the current state
Jul 20 16:38:19 <shane> in the past (with gnome-test-tool/gerd) i've found that screenshot comparisions are not very reliable
Jul 20 16:38:33 <shane> i like the idea of verifying state
Jul 20 16:38:35 <nags> like the GUI exist, object state enabled
Jul 20 16:39:30 <shane> but I suppose screenshots are the most effective way to verify the appearance of an app
Jul 20 16:39:37 <Raghu> For GUI exists, what if some other window pops up in the mean time?
Jul 20 16:39:53 <nags> shane: Thanika|Bea suggested to get some ideas from http://safsdev.sf.net
Jul 20 16:40:04 <kaveri> incase of say EOG testing, screenshots would be best
Jul 20 16:40:07 <nags> Raghu: thats a different one
Jul 20 16:40:25 <nags> kaveri: yes you are right
Jul 20 16:40:44 <nags> kaveri: but to test different states, like state of a mail
Jul 20 16:40:55 <nags> read / unread state
Jul 20 16:41:02 <nags> I'm just giving an example
Jul 20 16:41:15 <kaveri> so can we take some TODO on the developing on framework before we actually start coding test scripts?
Jul 20 16:41:28 <varadhan> nags, Are we targetting verification of "contents" for applications other than browsers?
Jul 20 16:42:06 <nags> kaveri: Ya, we should plan that...
Jul 20 16:42:08 <nags> varadhan: yes
Jul 20 16:42:24 <kaveri> nags: are there ldtp functions for all kinds of widgets used in gnome right now?
Jul 20 16:42:32 <varadhan> nags, applications like?
Jul 20 16:42:43 <kaveri> i think that should be given topmost priority
Jul 20 16:42:43 <nags> kaveri: as of now we have implemented the most commonly used widgets
Jul 20 16:43:34 <kaveri> raghu/girish were struggling with combo box funcitons
Jul 20 16:43:35 <nags> varadhan: mail rendering
Jul 20 16:43:41 <prem> varadhan: evolution mailer involves verification of received mail which we are currently doing with imagecapture and compare
Jul 20 16:43:42 <nags> kaveri: oops
Jul 20 16:44:21 <Raghu> yes, as i said, some of them do not appear in the .map file
Jul 20 16:44:43 <biswa> varadhan:how we will implement imagecapture and image compare function in EOG
Jul 20 16:45:10 <nags> kaveri: can we locally setup some JDS box to resolve those issues ? Actually we dont face most of the issues
Jul 20 16:45:13 <varadhan> prem, nags ah!! yes, I agree, but, for application like EOG, I don't think it would be a good idea to follow screenshot comparison.
Jul 20 16:45:20 <nags> kaveri: either in NLD or in SuSE 9.3
Jul 20 16:45:27 <nags> kaveri: even in FC3 / FC4
Jul 20 16:45:55 <Raghu> And a lot of dependencies as well
Jul 20 16:45:56 <nags> we have recently setup Ubuntu and we have to start with that
Jul 20 16:46:09 <varadhan> nags, kaveri, shane, biswa Are we interested in testing how an image is displayed in EOG (or like applications)?
Jul 20 16:46:36 <biswa> varadhan: i think it will be helpful in EOG also
Jul 20 16:46:38 <varadhan> Raghu, if you have python imaging and other basic accessibility libraries, things shouldn't be that hard.
Jul 20 16:46:40 <nags> varadhan: apart from UI testing, also trying to include functionality testing
Jul 20 16:46:50 <varadhan> Raghu, they are very basic packages normally available across distros.
Jul 20 16:47:21 --- #ldtp :No such nick/channel
Jul 20 16:47:21 --- nags gives channel operator status to Girish
Jul 20 16:47:28 <Raghu> Actually i tried installing ImageMagick and xvfb and faced a lot of dependency issues
Jul 20 16:48:12 <nags> shane: any thoughts about dependency issues in JDS ?
Jul 20 16:48:26 --- nags gives channel operator status to ldtp
Jul 20 16:49:03 <varadhan> nags, my suggestion would be testing the GUI components and the underlying functionality. Like what happens when we click on "File->Open" than "whether the content is being rendered properly or not", though browsers and mail-composers require such testing.
Jul 20 16:49:05 <biswa> varadhan:how you are using imagecapture function in evolution mailer
Jul 20 16:49:46 <varadhan> biswa, prem will be the right person.
Jul 20 16:50:13 <prem> biswa: in case of verification of a received mail we capture the image of the mail and test with the reference image
Jul 20 16:50:42 <prem> biswa: we have to make sure that the reference image is taken using the values in the dat file
Jul 20 16:50:50 <biswa> prem:any function we have written
Jul 20 16:50:50 shaheed shane shilpa Jul 20 16:50:51 shaheed shane Jul 20 16:51:04 <nags> prem, shaheed: how things going on ?
Jul 20 16:51:12 <nags> prem: any updates from your side ?
Jul 20 16:51:23 <prem> nags yes
Jul 20 16:51:24 <shane> nags: isn't there the PIL dependancy for imageCapture
Jul 20 16:51:24 <varadhan> prem, biswa, nags, keep in mind that we might need to handle "different-resolution-based-rendering" scenarios when we use screenshot methods.
Jul 20 16:51:33 <shane> but I think that is documented
Jul 20 16:51:36 <shaheed> Well we have a module called Record in LDTP initially developed by nags. I have modified it to work with latest PyLDTP format.
Jul 20 16:51:42 <nags> shane: yes
Jul 20 16:51:46 <prem> I have been working on developing sanity scripts for evolution mailer like composing mail etc.,
Jul 20 16:51:59 <nags> mnagashree: ?
Jul 20 16:52:04 <shaheed> Record has performance issue, i will look into the code once and make sure that we are freeing the allocated memory properly from our side at least.
Jul 20 16:52:05 <prem> I m currently working on developing sanity scripts for evolution calendar.
Jul 20 16:52:20 <prem> Next week I will be working on text related component functions.
Jul 20 16:52:28 <shane> nags: biggest dependancy is with a11y (obviously ;)) - I think this will limit the apps that can be tested ?
Jul 20 16:52:30 <nags> shaheed: okay...
Jul 20 16:52:41 <nags> shane: yes you are right
Jul 20 16:52:46 <shaheed> And one more thing is if there is no label for a widget when we view in at-poke tool, record prints 'null' in the corresponding command. Instead of that we have to look for label_by name or ask the user for the label as suggested by Thanika|Bea once.
Jul 20 16:52:56 <kaveri> we have seen some problems with "record" but we dont have a proper forum to log that.. if bugzilla is up we can consolidate issues
Jul 20 16:53:00 <nags> shane: before doing this I evaluated lot of other tools and found this suitable
Jul 20 16:53:02 <Thanika|Bea> hey .. i am little bit lost... what is the topic of discussion
Jul 20 16:53:09 <varadhan> shane, As of now, Yes, but moving forward I think all the applications would be a11y compatible.
Jul 20 16:53:17 <nags> kaveri: waiting for Luis...
Jul 20 16:53:26 --- varadhan has changed the topic to: LDTP and its Roadmap
Jul 20 16:53:57 <nags> kaveri: since we already have one guy from GNOME, we haven't requested anybody else to create one for LDTP in bugzilla.gnome.org
Jul 20 16:54:12 <prem> varadhan: "different-resolution-based-rendering wont be problem i suppose as we are going to prepare the reference image with respect to the test scenario
Jul 20 16:54:19 <nags> krish_: ?
Jul 20 16:54:25 <varadhan> kaveri, luis is still in sleeping mode.
Jul 20 16:54:40 <varadhan> prem, Yes, exactly that is what I was saying.
Jul 20 16:54:47 <biswa> varadhan:so this script will not be useful for GUI testing without accessibility?
Jul 20 16:54:59 <krish_> nags:- Oh, I was on the phone
Jul 20 16:55:07 <nags> jess: we need to update wiki site, I will give all the required details offline
Jul 20 16:55:23 <varadhan> prem, so, everyone has to create a reference-image against which he wants to compare the functionality.
Jul 20 16:55:33 <varadhan> prem, which most of the users wouldn't prefer.
Jul 20 16:55:44 <kaveri> nags its already 5:00 pm do we take some notes/action items off this meet?
Jul 20 16:55:49 <nags> varadhan: we will discuss that little later
Jul 20 16:55:54 <kaveri> what is the release schedule for ldtp?
Jul 20 16:55:56 <varadhan> prem, though, I would suggest we give a lesser priority to such tasks as of now.
Jul 20 16:55:57 <krish_> nags:- I missed the last part.
Jul 20 16:56:06 <prem> varadhan: ok
Jul 20 16:56:11 <jess> sure nags
Jul 20 16:56:13 <krish_> kaveri:- dot release every 15 days
Jul 20 16:56:13 <nags> kaveri: planed every 15 days
Jul 20 16:56:13 <kaveri> and who will contribute what?
Jul 20 16:56:15 <varadhan> kaveri, Yes, I am logging the conversation.
Jul 20 16:56:37 <kaveri> varadhan : Thanks,...
Jul 20 16:56:38 <nags> kaveri: that we need to consolidate
Jul 20 16:56:38 <varadhan> biswa, Yes.
Jul 20 16:57:03 <krish_> kaveri:- I think nags would come out with the list of tasks with priorities, and people can pick up
Jul 20 16:57:08 <varadhan> nags, kaveri After this meeting, the points/concerns/suggestions/etc will be consolidated and sent to the m-l.
Jul 20 16:57:12 <krish_> kaveri:- based on their convenience.
Jul 20 16:57:13 <prem> Guys I m taking care of the Newsletters and I need your your suggestions for improving our newsletter
Jul 20 16:57:17 <nags> varadhan: thanks
Jul 20 16:57:30 <varadhan> nags, kaveri and from this consolidated list, we can categorize and allocate tasks.
Jul 20 16:57:37 <jess> prem, it was very informative..
Jul 20 16:57:43 <kaveri> varadhan: ok fine with me
Jul 20 16:57:47 <varadhan> nags, kaveri, krish_ Does that make sense?
Jul 20 16:57:51 <nags> Hema: ?
Jul 20 16:57:51 <prem> jess: thanks :)
Jul 20 16:57:53 <krish_> varadhan:- yes
Jul 20 16:57:59 <nags> varadhan: yes
Jul 20 16:58:24 <nags> Thanika|Bea: suggestions from your side ?
Jul 20 16:58:33 <-- Thanika|Bea has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Jul 20 16:58:39 <krish_> oops
Jul 20 16:58:44 <krish_> nags:- I have one
Jul 20 16:58:45 <nags> :)
Jul 20 16:58:48 <nags> krish_: yes
Jul 20 16:58:51 shaheed shane Jul 20 16:58:57 <nags> shane, Bob: ?
Jul 20 16:59:07 <nags> tuxbox: ?
Jul 20 16:59:14 <krish_> nags:- may be you can go round the room asking for thier status after your initial update
Jul 20 16:59:24 <krish_> nags:- from next time....
Jul 20 16:59:30 <nags> krish_: sure
Jul 20 16:59:43 <krish_> nags:- This is a good start
Jul 20 16:59:45 <nags> mnagashree: ?
Jul 20 16:59:46 <varadhan> krish_, Yes. Also, this will be a part of the MoM mail.
Jul 20 16:59:55 <tuxbox> nags: i agree
Jul 20 16:59:59 <nags> shilpa: ?
Jul 20 17:00:01 <krish_> varadhan:- what MoM mail ?
Jul 20 17:00:06 <nags> tuxbox: cool :)
Jul 20 17:00:12 <varadhan> MOM == Minutes of Meeting. :)
Jul 20 17:00:23 <nags> okay guys anything more ?
Jul 20 17:00:25 <krish_> varadhan:- do we need one ?
Jul 20 17:00:28 <varadhan> the one with consolidated report of this meeting and tasks discussed/takeup etc.
Jul 20 17:00:47 <varadhan> s/takeup/takenup/
Jul 20 17:00:52 <nags> if nothing much, we can conclude our discussion...
Jul 20 17:00:57 <varadhan> krish_, I hope so, atleast for this meeting.
Jul 20 17:00:59 <krish_> varadhan:- the entire conversation would be posted on the wiki page - if others don't have any issues with that.
Jul 20 17:01:20 <tuxbox> not from my side
Jul 20 17:01:31 <varadhan> krish_, however, a consolidated page always helps lazy people like me. ;)
Jul 20 17:01:37 <nags> Thanks guys !!!
Jul 20 17:01:53 <jess> Congrats to nags
Jul 20 17:02:01 <krish_> varadhan:- are you ready to volunteer to consolidate this ?
Jul 20 17:02:06 <jess> First community meet and First newsletter...
Jul 20 17:02:12 <varadhan> krish_, I am already doing it. ;)
Jul 20 17:02:15 <jess> :).. great steps forward
Jul 20 17:02:26 <krish_> varadhan:- good
Jul 20 17:02:28 <jess> varadhan, give me the link.. for main page on GB
Jul 20 17:02:41 <varadhan> jess, LDTP?
Jul 20 17:03:10 <jess> give me the link where you log the meeting
Jul 20 17:03:21 <shane> nags: sorry, I was taken away with some stuff here -
Jul 20 17:03:24 <varadhan> jess, Its in my local box. Will upload it there.
Jul 20 17:03:30 <krish_> nags:- Is the community meeting still on ?
Jul 20 17:03:48 shaheed shane Jul 20 17:03:51 <nags> shane: okay
Jul 20 17:04:05 <shane> can I get a link to the log?
Jul 20 17:04:19 <nags> shane: Just getting it ready :)
Jul 20 17:04:36 <shane> thanks nags
Jul 20 17:05:25 <jess> ok varadhan
